The View from Gaza

by Taghreed El-Khodary, New York Times journalist in Gaza and Harvard University Nieman Fellow (2005-2006). Interviewed by Middle East Bulletin.

How is Gaza different from the last time we spoke?

It’s a frustrating place to be. Because, after all, you need a normal life. I miss buying magazines, really we don’t have magazines. You cannot buy hard copies that you can touch, can have in your apartment, can read. I miss that. When you go to the supermarket, you know, there are the basics, but there’s no variety. And now, this is the crazy part, the informal economy, the tunnels, move the whole Gaza Strip. The tunnels are becoming the core of the informal economy here, and what they bring from the tunnels is extremely expensive—you pay a lot of money and the quality is extremely bad.

A new class that is uneducated is emerging. They are making a lot of money. One smuggler stopped a friend of mine and asked her if her Hondi Jeep was for sale. When she said no to him, he offered her a lot more than what she had paid for the Jeep—a lot more. But she refused because there are no cars for sale in Gaza and those available are very old. So far, smugglers have failed to get fancy cars through the tunnels. One of the senior Hamas figures said to me, ‘Don’t you agree, Taghreed, that it feels like an industrial zone area at the border with Egypt?’ Can you believe it? They rely heavily on the tunnels to create an informal economy in the Gaza Strip but still cement and several raw materials are missing that are needed to activate the economy. If you talk to people about what’s needed now, it’s the opening of the crossings, and that’s it.

A big difference, I would say, is that all of a sudden you see many coffee places opening up. You have a young population, and all of a sudden they are coming up with these ideas. They are graduates, many of them are Fatah guys who are governmental employees getting paid for not working at ministries ruled by Hamas. So these people decided to open coffee places. So there are more restaurants, more coffee places, which I think is good. In addition to the many mosques. So there are not only many mosques, but also many coffee places for the young population.

Life continues, despite the siege—you find things to survive. People learn how to adapt to the situation. This is very fascinating when it comes to human beings—how quickly they can adapt. And they do. People are all of a sudden going out to restaurants, coffee places. And students are back at the universities. But at the same time what’s missing, while there is internal security for which people credit Hamas, there is also a sense of instability. There is a sense of not being able to plan a future. There is a sense of being trapped in an open jail. You go to coffee place and you talk with people and everybody—every family, every young person, every student who is there—has a story to tell about the effect of the siege. Last time I was sitting in a coffee place there was an old couple talking about how they got a visa to go to Germany for medical treatment but cannot go. So people feel the siege and they blame all sides—not just one side or another. They feel lost and trapped with no way out.

But Hamas has succeeded in becoming the only party in the Gaza Strip. They have consolidated so much in order to reach this stage, and really they are the ones in power—nobody else. Meanwhile, in the West Bank you have Mahmoud Abbas and Salam Fayyad with great challenges ahead of them, and so far I don’t think they have succeeded in coming out with a successful model in the West Bank. Hamas, too, has not succeeded in coming out with a successful model in the Gaza Strip. So both sides are trapped. Everybody is busy with their own agenda and the people feel that they are the ones who are forgotten.

Given the situation for you, and the restrictions in your daily life, are you thinking about leaving?

No, no, no not to that extent, no. I’m thinking to make an effort, to get an Israeli permit that will enable me to move between Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza and I will try to get my employer to get me such a permit because I am still very interested in covering the story. I’m very interested in covering Gaza, and Hamas, and what will happen. But I need the diversity of opinions and I need to at least get out of here from time to time, you cannot be in one place, because it’s not healthy. You get tired of the story, it’s like the same over and over, the same voice, and it’s very healthy, you know, to get all elements to the story. It’s hard only to hear what Hamas is thinking, and the population here. But what about the other part, the other voices. Plus, the Israelis, how are they thinking? It’s great to combine all these voices and come out with what’s really going to happen to get a clear understanding of the situation, because you cannot get it all if you can only hear one element of the story. And that’s the frustration of someone like me, because I’m used to diversity and different opinions and this is what I love about life and all of a sudden not being able to be like this and to continue this way of living, it can be very frustrating, very frustrating indeed. But I still don’t feel like leaving the place … which is good, and I don’t know, and I hope I will be like this all the time, but I don’t know, maybe in two years, if the situation continues as it is, will I stay?

Last time you told us that you felt as if Abbas and Fayyad weren’t reaching out to the people of Gaza, do you think that’s changed at all?

No, it has not. They have not reached out to Gaza at all. I think the people here feel that they have been abandoned by everyone. And the crazy part is that people are used to this life. That’s the thing.

Hamas blames Abbas and Fayyad in the media and the mosques for being behind the siege and the suffering. At the same time, a woman said to me, ‘they are talking about reconciliation but how can we believe that they can achieve this when both sides are blaming each other, when both sides are arresting each other? In the West Bank, they are arresting the Hamas guys, in Gaza they are arresting the Fatah guys, so how can you talk about reconciliation if you are continuously arresting each other?’ But I think when it comes to reconciliation Hamas has succeeded big time in coming out with this delay because such a delay of the dialogue, of reaching an agreement in Cairo, is going to benefit Hamas. With a delay they gain a stronger position at the table. Because at the beginning of January, Abbas is done with his term according to the basic law. That’s why Egypt was very keen for Hamas to come on the 10th and attend this ceremony and sign an agreement that it will abide by the reconciliation. Hamas said it cannot agree on formation of a government, cannot agree on formation of security forces without agreeing on the other aspects. Hamas’ vision is to come out with a package, and they have tried to convince Egypt that such a package should include the PLO, elections, government and security.

Of course, Egypt, Abbas and Fayyad and the international community are not interested because they don’t want Hamas to be part of the PLO, they don’t want Islamic Jihad to be part of the PLO.

I think Fayyad’s vision, Abbas’ vision, Egypt’s vision was, ‘okay, lets agree first on government and security forces.’ But Hamas’ vision was, ‘no, lets agree to one package agreement that will include the PLO.’ Egypt would say ‘PLO later,’ but Hamas is saying ‘no, it has to be from the beginning.’ Because that will be an achievement for them. This is what they want, to be part of the PLO body. When asked about whether Hamas might not come to the dialogue unless Abbas released all Hamas political prisoners, Abbas said ‘we don’t have any political prisoners, all we have are those who are involved with money and weapons.’ According to Hamas that meant he was referring to them as thieves and thugs, rather than as resistance. So, Hamas employed that statement to its advantage saying ‘he insulted us and plus he’s not helping, he’s not pushing for the Hamas delegation to participate in the Cairo agreement, therefore we are not going to go, unless they release the prisoners.’ And at the same time, Hamas used Abbas’ actions in the West Bank as a pretext to arrest all the Fatah field leaders in all the districts of the Gaza Strip. And that was smart because tomorrow, the 11th, is the anniversary of the death of Abu Amar, Yassar Arafat. That way they stopped the celebrations of this anniversary. Now Mahmoud al-Zahar tells me, ‘reconciliation is hypothetical.’

So what do you think is going to happen January 9th?

Abbas is stuck. It is to his advantage to have legal approval from all parties in the legislative council, to have, for example, an extension of a year. But he needs the approval of Hamas. If Hamas refuses, he will continue to be the president till the next elections according to the basic law and he will still be considered by the international community the only one that enjoys legitimacy. The question is what if Abbas and Israel agree to a peace agreement. How can it be implemented when Palestinians are divided.

Well he argues that he already has it, that he already has an extra year because a bunch of different amendments, rules…

Yeah, that’s one version of the story but I think Hamas will use the basic law against him, and Israel at the same time will refer to him starting from Jan 9th as illegal. Of course it depends on who is in power in Israel. Because they would say how can they sign an agreement with someone who is not legal? This is, I think, how some Israelis, and also some in the international community are thinking. If he’s going to be viewed as illegal, he’s going to be very weak. How can Israel continue with him?

So, I think it is to his advantage to have Hamas’ approval for his extension, in order to avoid problems on the ground, because you cannot leave Gaza alone. At the end of the day, it’s a big part of the story; Hamas will not help with implementation of anything. I think the international community would prefer a legal extension of Abbas. And everybody needs Hamas. I think Egypt will continue to exert efforts for Hamas to show up in Cairo maybe in two weeks or so. But I think Hamas will continue the delay to its advantage.

Think about it, what are the incentives that Egypt can give Hamas? Are they going to provide them with international legitimacy? P.L.O? There are none and that’s why I don’t see them being interested. At the same time, I went to the West Bank two weeks ago, I visited Ramallah. And the feeling over there reminded me of Gaza during Oslo. All the donors coming, everybody interested in Ramallah and Hamas underground. And the fear is, what happened in Gaza will happen in the West Bank. I’m not sure that there is no corruption and misuse of money. I don’t know if the international community is working hard to make sure that there will be no repetition of the Gaza situation again. What made Hamas in Gaza, one of the main factors, is the corruption. I’m sorry to say that, but it’s the truth. When I went there, I smelled it. It was Gaza again, and what’s happening to Hamas in the West Bank is the same. So I think they have to be very careful of not repeating the Gaza case again.

And do you think there is any sort of economic opening that could be provided to businesses in Gaza that aren’t in any way connected to Hamas?

No. Because the international community looks at it as if by helping the private sector you will revive the economy in the Gaza Strip, meaning that you will benefit Hamas. This is how they look at it, but I think it’s just crazy. You have many private sector people leaving Gaza. Businessmen are leaving and investing outside the Gaza Strip. There are also many graduate students who are leaving Gaza because they cannot take it. It’s been a while now, it’s not like a few months. Even as a journalist working for an international newspaper, I’m starting to feel it myself. Look, I’m calling you, it’s very cold, I cannot turn on the heater, I am back to lighting candles and I have to prepare myself because it seems we are back to this style of life that is really very primitive and it is very insulting at the same time and really not fair.

And I don’t know where it’s going. The international community adopted a policy that it thought would make Hamas fail, but it has not. So far, they are becoming stronger on the ground, their supporters are still supporting them, and no alternative has emerged, and no alternative will dare to emerge. There is direct and indirect suppression and self-censorship that haunts many people who won’t dare to come out with an alternative. And at the same time, what would be the definition of an alternative now? I think a very healthy, successful alternative will speak to what’s happening on the ground and bear in mind all the existing parties. You cannot be an alternative by becoming an enemy. Look at Fatah in the West Bank, they’re so divided. Fayyad’s camp is working alone, Abbas’ camp is working alone, and everybody is driven by personal interest and seeking personal power and business interests and you feel it there. Fatah has not proved itself as the alternative throughout this whole period. There are many people here who are in need of a way out. But they cannot see it. They are losing hope.

If the international community were willing to work in Gaza, how would it separate out the people of Gaza from Hamas? What could it do?

Education is an important element to focus on. There are many young people who don’t know English, who don’t speak English. Programs that allow young people to study languages and learn about other cultures would be very helpful. They are lost! You go to coffee places, and you see young people sitting and doing nothing but smoking and drinking coffee all day long, with no goal in life. You talk to many young people who say, ‘I’m sick of my life, I don’t love it, I don’t love life.’ It’s very shocking when you see someone who’s 18 years old telling you ‘I don’t love life.’ There are many young people with no goal in life and nobody to guide them. These are the people who don’t accept Hamas. They go to universities but there’s no challenge there because there’s no exposure to the world. You have even professors who are sick of life. It seeps into everything. Every single element in society. Even the headmistresses, the headmasters, and the parents — it’s becoming a different Gaza. It’s so sad because everybody’s affected by the siege and they impose their anger on others. You hear of examples of teachers who beat their students badly. In two cases, I followed two students who went to hospital due to beatings by their teachers. Why? Because one said Fatah and the other Hamas and the teachers were with one party or the other. And they release their anger by the use of force and by becoming very aggressive and violent.

This is what Gaza has become. These are the stories you hear. Everybody has been affected whether it’s a teacher, a student or a businessman, parents, you name it. There are NGOs working on the ground here, but they are not that strong because so far Hamas is strong on the ground. Hamas helps their poor supporters. I don’t know if you read my story on the wedding, the Hamas wedding. It was published a few weeks ago. There were 300 Qassam Brigade members getting married. They are from poor families and Hamas helped them with the dowry, with the parties. Of course, Hamas has been affected by the siege, so they didn’t get them the whole suit, they got them the shirt, the pants, the shoes, the tie, but not the jacket this time. But still they’re so focused, so disciplined, this Hamas, and they’re taking care of their Qassam members. With the lull, there’s nothing to do, no fighting, and too much energy, so what to do? Okay, get married. And all of a sudden Hamas is playing the role of matchmaker.

What impact has the ceasefire had, if any?

I’ll tell you something. I feel great walking in the streets of Gaza, or driving in the streets of Gaza, and not having that fear of a car being attacked by Israel, by a drone or a helicopter. This fear is not there. I’m talking here about assassination policies that were stopped by Israel due to this ceasefire. I find it great, because I know Israel won’t hit the car in front of me, which was the feeling before. This feeling is gone but there is a feeling of instability about who on the ground is angry at Hamas, and may decide to blow something up.

Many people talk about internal security but as for me I think I’m not, I feel maybe something will come out anytime. I’m talking about someone avenging Hamas—maybe smaller groups that are angry with Hamas. Maybe. You never know. Maybe they will blow something up. Perhaps an extremist group that is angry at Hamas for going into government because they think religion is government and governance. And maybe they will do something. But so far Hamas controls and has an eye at every corner—they are called ‘the drones.’

With the commercial crossings, they allow things into Gaza, but not everything. That’s why there is no variety when you go to the supermarket. There are things, but not like before. A lot is missing. For instance, no raw materials—no cement to revive the infrastructure, or to revive the building and engineering sector. And the quantity is less as well, it’s not like before. And there is no freedom of movement. Rafah is closed. It’s a miracle to get out of Erez. It’s a miracle to get an Israeli permit for a couple of days or even for a day. So in a way, people say, nothing has changed. So people ask what the point is of continuing the truce if you don’t get everything you asked for.

I think Israel is happy with Hamas so far because Hamas has proved that it can prevent any firing of rockets. But, because of the Israeli operation Hamas had to retaliate, and with the timing of the Cairo agreement, they wanted to change the focus in the media. So I think it’s going to be back, the tahdiyeh (lull) will be implemented again. Both Israel and Hamas need it at this stage.

Well, Hamas says that it’s over on December 19.

Yes, December 19 will be 6 months since the beginning of the tahdiyeh. Then they have to evaluate. What has Israel offered? Have we succeeded in getting everything we asked for? Those will be the questions that Hamas will look at. There are many inside Hamas who are not with the tahdiyeh. There are many guys who are dying to go back to fighting because this is how they see themselves—as fighting, not in governance But, they are still abiding, everybody is abiding by the political leadership’s decision. I think, mid December, they will evaluate, and of course Egypt will be the mediator, and I think everybody’s interested.

With the reconciliation, I don’t know, I don’t see it happening soon. They can agree on a document but what about the implementation? It’s going to be a long process.

So do you think that they will agree in a matter of months or will it take a long time?

I think it will take a long time. It will take months to agree on everything. Hamas might see January as a good time to agree on a draft, or maybe the end of December. Hamas may be willing to postpone discussing the issue of the PLO, if Egypt pushes hard. But the question is, how can they push hard? What kind of pressure can be put on Hamas to accept these conditions? There are no incentives. What has been tried thus far has not worked. I mean it has worked in some ways, but at the end of the day, they are in control of the Gaza Strip.

And so far, people have not demonstrated against Hamas in the streets. No revolution, no demonstration. There are people who are angry at Hamas, but the question is, are they strong enough, or do they dare to demonstrate, or to change the fact that Hamas is in control of the Gaza Strip, I don’t see it happening, so far. So, there are no incentives for Hamas. What kind of pressure can you add for Hamas to say all of a sudden ‘we surrender’? I don’t see this happening.

So in the end they will agree on something but the big question is implementation. Who will implement? Hamas will tell you, ‘okay I can implement in the Gaza Strip, but can Fatah implement in the West Bank’? The fact that Israel is there will make it hard for the Palestinian Authority to implement any reconciliation agreement. I don’t see it happening. They may agree on things on paper, but the implementation is the key. How can you implement reconciliation agreements given the fact that Israel is in the West Bank, that Hamas is here and you have many people angry at each other? It may happen, but it will require a great deal of effort.

Hamas, for example, does not trust Egypt. One of the Hamas leaders said it: ‘We don’t trust the Egyptians, they are not playing a neutral role. They cannot, they have failed to be a mediator.’ They think that Egypt is aiming to ensure that Hamas fails, because they don’t want Hamas to succeed as an Islamic model in the Gaza Strip because of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. So they think of it that way, that Egypt is taking Abbas’ side.

So what hope do you see, Taghreed?

That’s why a neutral mediator would be an asset, maybe along with Egypt, because Egypt has to play a role. I think you need someone else, perhaps international, rather than Arab—but very neutral—to supervise. France? Switzerland? Someone who would be accepted by both. You have Ramallah counting on continuing what they’re doing and letting the Egyptians deal with Hamas. But Hamas is not that stupid. Ramallah counted on passing the reconciliation agreement in the Arab League, and then if Hamas didn’t accept anything in the implementation, then everybody would blame Hamas. But Hamas believes the Arab League will never agree on it if they don’t. Because the Arab League is so divided. You have Qatar, you have Syria, that will take Hamas’ side, plus Sudan, plus maybe they say Algeria. I think Hamas is counting on them but things can change with President Obama. With a new American administration, I think Syria may all of a sudden change. If the Syrian track will be activated, then Syria will say goodbye to Hamas. And at the same time, with a new administration, maybe Qatar will change. We never know.

So that’s the hope?

Many people have been inspired by the U.S. election. The situation here is difficult. So far, Palestinians don’t have such a leader that can provide them with change. Even the alternative to Hamas find it very complicated to figure out how to face them. How can they create change in the face of Hamas that has been in control on the ground for a long time? What would change look like? It’s very complicated but I think with Obama’s administration, let’s hope, he knows both narratives very well, from my understanding, from my reading. He knows the Israeli narrative very well, he knows the Palestinian narrative very well, and I think someone with his background, he can listen to both sides equally. And he can, maybe, let’s hope, be the neutral person to listen to both and to push hard.

But how would an agreement be implemented with Hamas in the picture?

Reconciliation is the key. They believe in a two-state solution, but based on a truce. Twenty years, ten years, fifty years, you know? And leave it for the next generation to determine if they want to go with this or if they want to go with something else. The challenge is how to turn Hamas into a flexible party that is exposed to the world. One Hamas leader that is moderate told me once that the "Hamas charter is not written by a prophet." So who knows?

I live in Gaza, I meet many leaders in Hamas, whether it’s Qassam or political leaders. I sit with them, I talk with them, I listen to them. I’m telling you, they’re not exposed. They don’t know what is out there. They are here, they are trapped here, and they don’t know the rest of the world. And that’s why it’s scary. A Fatah leader who is arrested by Hamas now told me how he wishes the first unity government had worked out. Because, Fatah would be here. Fatah is out of Gaza now because of this. Had the first unity government worked out, Fatah could be here, on the ground, working. But they’re out. They have no presence in the Gaza Strip.

So, what’s the way out? Leave Gaza as it is? For how long? Will Hamas fade away all of a sudden as many Fatah guys count on? I don’t see it happening. On the contrary, I think they feel very powerful now. They feel that they have accomplished something—full control of the Gaza Strip—and that’s power for them at this stage. So, what incentives can anyone give Hamas to become flexible? That’s the question. Because no one can give anything for nothing in return. I think this is the fear, that Hamas will be happy with Gaza, Fatah is happy with the West Bank, and that’s it. The fear that Egypt might administer Gaza and Jordan the West Bank. It seems that no one learns from history.

I think what might end up making everybody focus on the Israeli-Palestinian issue, though, would be if Hamas brings about political instability. This is what Mahmoud Zahar, the senior leader, has said. I said ‘What are you counting on? Because you are so weak and more pressure can be put on you, if you say no, if you say no when it comes even to implementation. So what are you counting on?’ And you know what he said? ‘Political instability.’ Back to firing rockets, back to military operations. I mean like, back to ‘political instability.’ And then everybody will say ‘oh, what is happening in Israel? What is happening in Gaza? What’s happening in the West Bank?’ And they can’t do it. This is the thing.

But for now I think they can make people breath a little bit. My Lord, it’s too much, what’s happening here. Keep the status quo as it is, okay. Postpone this file for a while, okay. Make Egypt mediate, but also get an international body to mediate, too, beside Egypt, to ensure that things are working out, okay. Work on the reconciliation. It won’t happen overnight,. It will take months for them to agree on something, on the agenda, on everything. Then maybe by the end of 2009, they may have something concrete, and then you can go back to the file. But keep them busy working on something.

Meanwhile, do something for the people, I mean it’s unbelievable that and those seeking medical treatment and students cannot travel out of Gaza. Because this is the generation you are counting on. Change will come from within, and if you create a population that is ignorant, that is living in darkness, what can come out but anger? So, give the people a little bit of incentive in order to keep on with the file.